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1100°

X1 ESRAM & 720p Why It's Causing A Resolution Bottleneck

" The ESRAM of the Xbox One is perhaps the single largest issue developers are facing right now when porting games over to the machine. Leaks and rumors say it’s not only responsible for the lower native resolution of Xbox One Games, but also causing games to be harder to develop on the system. Let’s investigate the cause and clear up any confusion over the X1′s ESRAM."

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redgamingtech.com
decrypt4574d ago (Edited 4574d ago )

Well there is a reason Nvidia and AMD use GDDR5 for graphics. Memory bandwidth limitations can become a huge bottleneck. Luckily even todays mid range GPUs provide in excess of 250GB/s, high end GPUs provide north of 325GB/s. Cant wait till Maxwell when these figures will probably double.

No wonder PC pushes 4k gaming while other platforms are pushing 720p and literally struggling by the time they get close to 1080p.

shoddy4574d ago ShowReplies(20)
worldwidegaming4574d ago

people do not want to hear the truth. They wish to be mislead by catchy made up words and cool gimmicks.
Even when the ship is sinking they still think things are OK right down to the part where they are drowning.
In denial.

amnalehu4573d ago

THE CLOUD will fix it....right..

SmokexFFx4573d ago (Edited 4573d ago )

@amnalehu

Yea, what ever happened to that powerful cloud Microsoft kept mentioning. Powerful enough to do significant amounts of processing and take the stress off the Xbox One didn't they say?

Oh but maybe 'developers haven't mastered it yet', just like developers haven't mastered the incredible complexity of ESRAM. /s.

Prime1574573d ago

Ok, shrink it back in scale to 2006 when the 360 came out. Do you think you think no one was saying this?

Look, I agree with you fully: Console gaming is the budget gaming. However, there is still something to learn from it.

vallencer4573d ago

Or, and heres a thought, maybe a majority of people just don't care as much as you or anyone else about how "powerful" a console is. That's the truth.

I'm buying both, not on day one mind you but eventually. I'm getting the x1 first and it's because of the games. I love killer instinct and im intrigued by Ryse. Also dead rising 3 sold me. I had planned on buying a ps4 at lunch but the only game i was interested in was infamous and that got pushed back.

Also as far as the rest of their games go more than half of those indie games i can just buy on steam so why spend the extra 400 when i have a pc.

But in all honesty both WILL be great systems regardless of what everyone wants to say on the internet. The amount of hate and doom everyone had for the ps3 ended up being false. Sometimes things just take awhile and microsoft knows that.

mewhy324573d ago

More and more problems for the bone.

Consoldtobots4573d ago

for those that are technically challenged the long and short of it is this:

MS REALLY!!!!!!!! screwed up by going with GDDR3 as the article goes on to explain that as the BPP count rises this obsolete technology is up 90% slower than GDDR5 which you see on high end GPUs.
Sony knows what they are doing and MS does not, it's that simple.

mikeslemonade4573d ago (Edited 4573d ago )

Yep Sony has been around the block several times at making systems.

And please stop saying 4K TV or resolution. It's 2160P which is negligible. 1080p is enough for now. 720p isn't good enough.

thorstein4573d ago

You're right. What I found most intriguing from the article is the phrase "...single largest issue developers are facing right now when porting games over to the machine"

PORTING games over to the machine. Is PC the lead? Is PS4 the lead development console? Is this what was referred to last gen as "gimping" a game to make it even for both consoles?

And if it is such a huge problem, then why is MS releasing the console now? Delay and do it right.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 4573d ago
thehitman4574d ago

Mid range GPUs dont have that much bandwidth I dont know where your getting those crazy numbers from. Anything higher than 160ish is high end. Everything 250+ is like super high end not even for real gaming purposes but for commercial/business purposes. Those Gpus are like 300-1k dollars.

Anyways this guy talks for a very long time if you dont want to listen to the entire vid like I did. I can sum it up. Basically ESram is not large enough they went with lowest cost over better performance. DDR3 sucks for everything gaming like most PC gamers know already... and if xb1 devs try to close the gap between the systems using the best tools it still wont be enough because of other bottlenecks. Ps4 is stronger than xb1 but we all knew that coming in he just explains why.

nypifisel4573d ago

Here's a good chart showing the BPP for the most common rendering technique in modern engines (deferred rendering) without anti-aliasing.

A 1080p framebuffer using forward rendering and no AA at 32 bits per pixel would be ~24mb big, using deferred rendering which is far more likely would put it at the total of 2073600 pixels so at differing BPP(Bytes per pixel) we would get:

16 BPP: 31.64mb
20 BPP: 39.55mb
24 BPP: 47.46mb
28 BPP: 55.37mb
32 BPP: 63.28mb

As a reference BF3 (1080p on PC) is 20BPP and KZ:SF is 24BPP both without AA. I can't imagine Next Gen going any lower than 16BPP.

As you can see, even without any AA a FB using deferred rendering is almost always going to be bigger than 32mb (the maximum size for the eSRAM in Xbox One). It's the reason why the eSRAM is too small to be used as a FB for 1080p and why 720p will be norm on Xbox One if they want to keep up with graphical detail.

deecee334573d ago

Hey nypifisel:

I agree the ESRAM seems to be a huge hurdle at this point. I also think we might see that increasing graphics workloads could stretch the X1's fillrate to the limit earlier than the PS4 given that the gpu is less powerful than the PS4's. That's just a guess, but it seems likely.

Question for you since you seem to know a bit more about this: what types of visible issues could we see if indeed they decide to deferred render at 1080p using 16bpp? It seems like this might be noticeable?

nypifisel4572d ago

@deecee33

Well unless rendering techniques changes in the near future (it wont) we will see a big downgrade in visuals on Xbox One version of games to hit 1080p. Let me try put it in easier terms;

Hmm.

you got one 16 cl glass which you first have to fill half way up with resolution (1080p) which gives you 8 cl left to fill with graphical detail (colours essentially). On the PS4 which have no restrictions what so ever in that department you could just take a twice as big of a glass, 32 cl, resolution at 1080p still takes up 8 cl but you have 24 cl left for graphical detail.

16 BPP and 1080p on the Xbox One means there aren't enough space for graphical fidelity.

Some of the most visible effects will be lack of AA solution. But it will also be such essentials as lack of dynamic lighting, reflections or even big textures. We can actually already see some of this in Forza. It's 1080p but it lacks a lot of the things you would've taken for granted by now; dynamic lighting, day night cycle (which is a result of the above), and the aliasing is pretty terrible too - I think we will see a bigger disparity going forward though cause the Xbox One won't be able to keep up in these departments.

deecee334569d ago

Thx nypifisel- I get you. The more details I read the more it seems like the XB1 was designed to be a fast 720p machine, which is fine, but you gotta wonder who thought of non-optional Kinect. Might not matter in ten years, because MS shareholders may nix the xbox if it's not profitable enough.

nypifisel4568d ago

Hehe I'm sorry if it was a bit messy, It always makes sense in my head but trying to show this to other is a bit of a struggle. And yes your conclusion is very likely and fair!

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 4568d ago
Bigpappy4573d ago (Edited 4573d ago )

I don't believe ESRAM has anything to do with it. If it is under performing, it will more likely be the way the recourses are split among the 2 OS and Kinect. X1 is doing a lot more than the PS4 with its resources.

Most developers are very familiar with ESRAM. It requires the same techniques as those used on the 360.

thehitman4573d ago

esram has a lot to do with it. It really just isnt good enough point and simple. Developers maybe familiar with it, but that was when they were developing games with a lot lower textures and resolution. When you are trying to reach much higher power the esram falls short and developers have to find new tricks to use it in the best way with the other resources they have. Thats why every game that will launch will be not as good as the ps4 version because the ps4 architecture is not only easy, but very efficient in all aspects to meet todays demands for gaming.

MS having 3 OS on their system communicating with each other is a totally entire different discussion in itself that wont affect gaming but the applications part of the system which they seem to not be having a problem with. If there was apps crashing and game crashing when using the apps side by side then you would have a point.

Cernunnos4573d ago

The frame buffer simply isn't large enough to handle 1080p.

Bigpappy4573d ago (Edited 4573d ago )

So how are they doing it with forza (1080p 60fps)? Ryse is 900p. Could they not have reduced the polly count to make the files smaller?

What ever happened to developer being lazy and focusing on the lowest common denominator? How come they are not gimping PS4 games like I was constantly told was the case with PS3? Just goes to show how much of what is said on the internet is only to suit a purpose, or just plain old lies.

thehitman4573d ago

@Big just because the game is in 1080p @ 60fps doesnt really mean much if the quality of the textures themselves dont require much. Your forgetting forza is a racing game. It doesnt take much power to make plastic/metal look real like it does to make a human face and hundreds of animations/effects. Then you could dig deeper about the environments around not being dynamic etc just ultimately not requiring much power. Racing games are a terrible benchmark of what hardware can do.

Regarding Ryse it should be at 1080p not 900p. The fact its not even 1080p @ 30fps in itself is alarming. Also the gimping of ps3 games was not really because of huge power differences but because the 360 was still using dvd9 which means games were built to be a lot smaller. If you look at xb1 and ps4 look how huge the files are for the games. That is how it shouldve been this current gen for all games. Ps3 exclusives took advantage of the extra disc space but when it came to mulitplats majority didnt.

Christopher4573d ago

***Most developers are very familiar with ESRAM. It requires the same techniques as those used on the 360.***

This is actually very true.

MysticStrummer4573d ago

I don't know about other devs, but Rockstar admitted outright that things were cut from GTA4 because of 360.

Bigpappy4573d ago

@MysticStrummer: if things were removed from the game because of 360, would it not likely be because of DVD rather than, power. Think for a second before spewing what ever fit your argument. Also provide a link, cause I have never heard of this and you guy done let stuff like that pass.

LordMaim4573d ago

No reason they both can't be true.

deecee334573d ago

The ESRAM is one of a couple bottlenecks. As the article explained, the ESRAM has to be intelligently used to be useful at 1080p. There's also the issue of fillrate- you need enough raw tflop performance and a fast enough usable pool of memory to feed the gpu (and feed it fast enough) to push 60 frames at 1080p. Sony's machine seems capable with the stronger gpu- it is looking like the ESRAM may only be a secondary concern when the dust settles and developers re-learn to use it. At the end of the day they may need a faster gpu to keep up with increasing workloads at high res. Sony's best move wasn't just the GDDR5- it was a GPU with the fillrate to make true HD at stable fps a realistic goal for the devs.

Volkama4573d ago

The 32mb ESRAM is apaprently too small for a 1080p render.

The 360 had 10mb EDRAM, that was surely too small for a 720p render.

The 360 had 720p games.

Maybe it's a little premature to shout "GAME OVER" at Redmond?

nypifisel4573d ago (Edited 4573d ago )

Maybe none of you understand how displaying pixels on a screen works. See the chart I posted above for FB sizes using deferred rendering. If the Xbox One wants to push 1080p it have to sacrifice in other areas, it's as simple as that. Whether the 360 with 10mb eDRAM could do 720p or not is really irrelevant.

schubacca4573d ago

I will not be thinking about ESRAM when I am playing Forza 5, TitanFall, and Halo 5.

I have absolutely nothing bad to say about the PS4, which is the more powerful system with the best 1st party support.

However, I will still be also enjoying the X1.

+ Show (10) more repliesLast reply 4573d ago
Mister_Dawg4573d ago

PC pushing 4k?

Have you the cost of the hardware you would need to only just get acceptable frame rates?
To get it to the realm of decent gaming, you have to go with multiple gpu's. Have a look in this months custom pc magazine. Holy crap, there's no way I'm dropping £600+ to get just over 35fps minimum at 4k in crysis 3.

No thanks.
PC isn't ready just yet for mass 4k.

kane_13714573d ago (Edited 4573d ago )

Yeah, the top rigs that run 4k on crysis 3 cost actually around 6k.
They run dual Nvidia Titans, that alone is 2k+, then you have the rams, ssd, and CPU and suddenly you are bankrupt.

But hey, you can at least play crysis 3 on 4k full settings and show them console peasants who's the boss!

I hate PC elitist -___-

Cernunnos4573d ago

1440p on the other hand is still twice the resolution that 1080p is. It looks gorgeous, and you can build a PC for less than 1000$ that can max bf4 with 1440p.

lilbroRx4573d ago

I ran Crysis at max setting at a little over 2k on Nvidia 550 Ti. It ran smoothly.

Its really not as taxing as people think on PC.

FTLightspeed4573d ago

@Cernunnos Presuming the same 16x9 aspect ratio as current HD, 1440p would have a resolution of 2560x1440, an over 50% improvement in resolution over 1080p. not double.

decrypt4573d ago (Edited 4573d ago )

@Mister_Dawg

Titans are not needed.

You could go for 3x GTX 780s or 3x R9 290's and achieve simular results for a much lower cost.

In any case PC graphics power doubles in 12-18months time. Meaning 4k should be much more affordable in 12 months from now.

cooperdnizzle4573d ago

@LilbroRX. You are straight up lying. I have a 680, I7, 16GB of ram, and can not run the game at max settings higher then 1080p. No need to lie.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 4573d ago
Bathyj4573d ago

Its a very interesting read. MS have played it cheap with RAM for the sake of putting a camera in the box. Then they want us to believe having a really good band aid is better than not having a bleeding gaping wound in the first place.

On top of all that Kinect reserves 10% of the GPU and who knows how much of the RAM. MS has hamstrung itself out of the gate. If this were a racehorse it would be used to hold a chair together next month.

OrangePowerz4573d ago

The 360 solution worked fine for the 360 with a maximum of 512MB RAM (not even deducting yet the OS memory).

When you bump up the RAM to 5GB for gaming and change to high res textures and so on from last gen the 32MB ESRAM don`t cut it anymore. With games taking up to 50GB there is a huge amount of data moving around constantly.

4k is nice and all but it takes a lot of performance and it`s not cheap with the TVs and Monitors and will take a couple of years until those are affordable. The performance need will further increase once games actually use 4k assets.

kipsta4573d ago

Maxwell is going to be sweet! Q1/Q2 2014 apparently, very interested in a 880.

Looks like the ESRAM will be the "CELL" of this gen, being a pain is the a** for devs to work with.

insomnium24573d ago (Edited 4573d ago )

Yeah well like we all know by now CELL actually worked. With the ESRAM being only 32MB I cannot see in what practical way the devs are able to use it. I just don't see it happening. It's like bringing a bus to are race where the opposition has a normal car. Sure you have lots more room for people but you are just too slow to be competitive. In this case it's the exact opposite. Lots of speed but no room whatsoever. You get the idea I'm sure.

Automatic794573d ago (Edited 4573d ago )

By this time next year all games on Xbox one will be 1080p native. We already have a few examples for Xbox one so its a matter of time.

LordMaim4573d ago

By this time next year, all games on Xbox will come with a party hat and a flamingo casserole. We already have a few examples of statements that have no basis, so it's just a matter of time before someone makes another one.

lilbroRx4573d ago (Edited 4573d ago )

You do know that there are many high end GPU's from Nvida and AMD that use DDR3 and work just as well right?

People have been gaming in 1080p and beyond for over a decade on RAM much smaller and slower than what the next gen consoles have in them.

Though why am I saying this here. No one cares about facts and reality on this site. All they care about is spec boasting, and ever since Sony announced that they are using all GDDR5, people have been treating it like god ram when its not.

Last gen it was the all about "THE CELL". Now its all about GDDR5.

The Wii U has enough 1080p games to make it clear that 32 MB of edram is more than sufficient for 1080p gaming.

Xone games not being 1080p likely has more to with the development decisions vs overall GPU processing power than RAM performance.

dredgewalker4573d ago (Edited 4573d ago )

There aren't any high end gpu's today that use ddr3, only the low end ones use it for cost reduction.

SkullBlade1694573d ago (Edited 4573d ago )

Never mind, replied to wrong person.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 4568d ago
OlgerO4574d ago ShowReplies(6)
DarkLordMalik4574d ago

The article lists PS4 GPU TFLOPS as 18.4TFLOPS. It is a simple mistake here. It is actually 1.84 TFLOPS.

Deividas4574d ago (Edited 4574d ago )

Not sure why you have disagrees for pointing out a mistake.

Sci0n4573d ago

some can't handle the truth

reynod4574d ago ShowReplies(5)
Double_O_Revan4574d ago

Could you imagine if it was 18.4? o.O

reynod4574d ago (Edited 4574d ago )

Not a problem get 3x R9 290's in Crossfire and you are close to 17 TFLOPS of power :P Probably hit 18 TFLOPS with a bit of overclocking probably eclipse it lol.

Will cost about 1500usd though Not bad to have power that may be available on the next consoles when they launch in 7-8 years time.

Cernunnos4573d ago

a pair of R9 290's are not even close to 17 TFLOPS.. It would be closer to 6 TFLOPS.

Volkama4573d ago

A single R9 290X is something like 5.1 tflops stock. The regular R9 290 is expected this week, priced at approximately 1 PS4 and pushing 4.6 tflops.

They're still quite expensive, but the expensive PC of today is the mid-range PC of next year.

The moral of the story is console gamers should just talk about games :)

saikorican4573d ago

Just because someone can't afford $1500+ of tech doesn't mean they shouldn't be concerned about visuals. A little tired of PC users coming in and commenting about on every console article abut how PC is so far ahead if you have the cash for it. There's other forums for that you know.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 4573d ago
mark134uk4574d ago Show
creatchee4574d ago

This is a well-written, unbiased article that actually explains a lot of things instead of simply saying A is better than B. Even though X1 will have developers working harder, I'm sure that they will be able to get a lot out of the console once they've learned the tricks of it.

iceman064574d ago

I've heard the same thing stated from our resident "tech experts" on N4G. But, it's great to see this coming from an unbiased source.

Edsword4574d ago

I agree, the XB1 will likely have some very pretty and excellent games. However, I don't think its just a matter of working harder, XB1 games will likely always lag behind the PS4 in terms of graphics. MS best path forward is to focus on gameplay mechanics and new IPs to convince people graphics is not everything. However, the PS4 is pretty formidable and will likely have new IPs and great games as well. MS can still win this generation and certainly they have some capable development studios to do so. I just hope they don't try to buy this gen by purchasing a bunch of 3rd party exclusives, that is not fair to gamers of either console or PC.

Kushan4573d ago

There's nothing unbiased about this source, he's actually completely mistaken about the ESRAM as well. He's trying to state that the ESRAM is the bottleneck of the system when the reality is that it's the DDR3 that's holding everything back. The ESRAM actually helps reduce that bottleneck.

It's still not an excuse for cheaping out on the system Memory.

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60°

Final Fantasy X 25th Anniversary Website Launches With New Nomura Artwork and Merchandise

Square Enix launches Final Fantasy X 25th anniversary site, revealing new Nomura art, books, music releases, and merchandise.

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twistedvoxel.com
-Foxtrot14d ago

Look I know VIII has its issues and all that but how on earth can the do big anniversary events with new artwork and merchandise for VII, IX and X yet VIII got sweet f*** all.

They could have given it something during its 25th anniversary yet all it got was a single Happy Anniversary post on their social media.

solideagle14d ago

they should know that we are OG fans of VIII as it sold truckload as well. not as much as VII or X. I personally didn't like IX but X and VI are my personal fav.

Shadow Hearts 2 covenant is another game I love. I hope one day someone can make remake, I would be delighted

Relientk7714d ago

Final Fantasy VIII is great and you are always the first to defend it in the comments

40°

Star Wars: Bounty Hunter Let Jango Fett Loose

LucasArts gave Jango Fett his own game in 2002, and it pulled Star Wars into a much dirtier, rougher, and more interesting corner of the galaxy.

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swtorstrategies.com
Relientk7719d ago

I remember playing this back in the day on PS2. What a sick game!

270°

We Are Xbox

Dear team,

Xbox has always been different.

We started with a simple idea. Games should bring people together through shared experiences. That led to the first Xbox in 2001, Xbox Live in 2002, and new ways to connect, from friends lists and achievements to parties and play across devices. Today, Xbox reaches over 500 million players around the world, with some of the most important franchises in entertainment.

Read Full Story >>
news.xbox.com
19d ago Replies(15)
Outside_ofthe_Box19d ago (Edited 19d ago )

If they go back to exclusive games it at least shows that they are finally getting it. They would be turning down immediate money for something that will potentially workout in the long term.

Only issue is they've already opened Pandora's box. A lot of their base has moved to PC or jumped to PS. So will be a long road to get back on track.

We have been saying this from day one exclusives are a must if you are going to be selling hardware look at Nintendo and Sony before Jim Ryan. That's the proven formula. You had some that were deluded and blinded by loyalty accepting that multiplat was the future and that MS was merely getting ahead of where the industry was headed, but at least they can finally see the light and agree with what everyone has been saying for a decade+

pwnmaster300019d ago

True, blame it on the rabid fanboys. MS can do no wrong and spinner this multiplatform move. While the actual fans moved on.

I feel like with the new Xbox coming they are hoping to bring back those old fans and then if it goes well. Bring back exclusives.

If the new console is performing like series x and one. Naw they staying multiplatform.

darthv7219d ago

Actual fans dont move on... they can add to their hobby while waiting for the next new release. If you believe what you typed then I guess PS fans moved on too.... you know, since its been a Sahara for 1st party games this gen.

S2Killinit19d ago

The fans didn’t tell them to go multilat. MS was forced to after the 82 billion they spent to destroy gaming. Then, while xbox fans cheered, MS realized they can’t justify the price tag by selling through xbox only, so they went multiplat and in the process began to downplay console gaming.

19d ago Replies(4)
CrashMania19d ago

I think it's too late, xbox sales were diving even before ABK, they got even worse since then even long before the full multiplatform push. I'd be surprised if they even went back to timed exclusivity at this point, Helix is basically a PC and is going to be expensive, they already struggle to sell cheaper xbox consoles, it will be low volume and they'll have a very small 'console' base to sell to, which has already been conditioned to just play via gamepass anyway.

S2Killinit19d ago

They will do what they always do, they will promise the world at the beginning of next GEN and then failed to deliver all generation long. But there will always be some gamers who will buy into their promises.

ocelot0718d ago

Absolutely agree, Do people genuinely believe Microsoft are now going to go. Hang on how's about we go back to 2020. Then GP was stagnating, Games sold where awful because of GP. Outsold by Playstation by a landslide.

They have sold 5m of Forza I believe on PS5. Spite it being a old game. I think Starfield is going to sell well in the end. Halo is deffinetly going to sell well as is Fable and Forza Horizon 6.

I think at best (for Xbox fans). Single player titles like Clockwork will have a timed exclusivity. Multiplayer centric games like Forza, E Day will release day and date on all platforms.

Or all games will release on all platforms day and date. But maybe Xbox and Windows Store copies will have exclusive bonuses. Or may even get timed exclusive dlc like Fallout and Elder Scrolls and COD use to do.

I think they will treat Xbox players like the premium customers or at least act the way. But will serve just the Playstation and Switch 2 customers as well.

Neonridr19d ago

I don't see them removing PC from the equation. Considering MS has a heavy enough investment in the PC market, it would be foolish to abandon them. I could see them taking away games from PlayStation or ensuring they are timed exclusives at the very least. Say what you will but if Call of Duty ends up becoming a timed exclusive to Xbox machines, that would hurt PlayStation, don't pretend like those games don't sell millions.

Outside_ofthe_Box19d ago

They would lose out on a lot of CoD sales tho. Doesn't PS make up most of the sales?

Neonridr19d ago

@Outside - possibly, but it might push people to want Xbox hardware so they can play with their buddies day one.

Who knows.

S2Killinit19d ago (Edited 19d ago )

it would but remember doing that can splinter the COD fan base and in the process damage the call of duty brand which is probably the only franchise in that $82 billion purchase that in anyway gets even close to delivering what Microsoft thought they bought. If Microsoft fudges around too much with the COD franchise, you might even see a competitor franchise show up on the scene and that would be a catastrophe after the huge debt that Microsoft put itself into with the ABK purchase.

But Its almost guaranteed that Microsoft will want to do something drastic at the beginning of the next generation as they always do. We will see.

Pyrofire9519d ago

Their lifeline of solely the Xbox consoles is dry. Good-Great games on a 1st party scale can't be made at a loss so willingly - sent to the Xbox to only sell limited copies.
They invested billions scooping up studios and need to start making returns.
Sucks that nearly every company is publicly traded and have to be so shareholder biased but that's how it is.
Their words are strong but it'll take time to see what their actions accomplish. Lowering the cost of Game Pass and taking CoD off of it was a good clear start.

darthv7219d ago

More like, allot of their base just played game pass. So now they need to encourage them to start buying again.

S2Killinit19d ago (Edited 19d ago )

A lot of their base left for greener (bluer?) pastures.

--Onilink--19d ago

What exactly is the long term goal with exclusives though?

Because for the most part, the hardware side of things has never been the most profitable, even sometimes being subsidized for a period before breaking even. And that’s before the hardware component nightmare we currently live in.

The whole point of exclusives was to get more people to buy your console in order to have a bigger install base, which meant even bigger software sales.

But if their ports to PS5 are selling (for the most part it seems) quite well, then other than negating the cut Sony takes there, unless you are REALLY increasing your software sales on your own console, it probably doesn’t make that much of a difference?

Honestly I don’t even understand Sony’s decision to scale back on it for PC unless they weren’t even recouping the port expenses. They released ports when the hardware sales never really dropped, and now that all consoles will undoubtedly take a noticeable drop in sales due to the ridiculous prices, that’s when they decide they don’t want to sell to a larger install base to more easily recoup dev costs… it’s just weird

Outside_ofthe_Box19d ago (Edited 19d ago )

I agree. I mean once they went multiplat, in theory there should be no going back especially when you have games that have sold really well on other platforms.

Microsoft are the ones that announced that they are reevaluating. So I'm just guessing on what their end goal is. Right now Xbox as a hardware is not a must buy for anyone but fans of the brand because their games can be played elsewhere. Going exclusive would solve this, but you lose out on a ton of money instantly which has always been what the company does not want to do so not really sure what their "reevaluating exclusives" means unless they are pulling a Phil Spencer and are just saying what people want to hear and will continue to do what they are currently doing.

darthv7219d ago

Their ports to PS5 are selling because Sony's output has been so dry... the fans are thirsty, and MS is the oasis.

SIdepocket19d ago

Unfortunately, the studios they buy wither under their leadership.

mcstorm19d ago

Microsoft still has a name with Xbox the issue is the casual games are not looking at the console because its not the same console their friends have. Look at that poll on how many users upgraded from xbox 365 to one and then the X. Part of Microsoft's downfall was thinking that the Wii was the market they had to be in when really it was the core market. If you get the core gamers you then get the market to. As I posted a few minuets ago on another post Microsoft putting exclusives on PS this gen could bold well if they hit next gen with all our games are staying exclusive from this new gen. They will then get gamers wanting Halo, Forza Gears but this is also where Microsoft fell over with the xbox one and X in terms of they did not have may quality 1st party games affter they fell into the Gears, Forza and Halo cycle. If they can get some old IPs back to bring back the old core gamers as well as fresh ips to bring in new gamers things could improve next gen. But as I said in my last post its all if buts and maybes at the moment. No one knows if the next home consoles will be to expensive that people move to pc as we are now seeing or look at the stem deck as a cheepier alternitive.

DarXyde19d ago

"Only issue is they've already opened Pandora's box."

That's very optimistic. It's not the only issue, far from it. There is a serious rupture between Microsoft generally and the public caused by their weird Game Pass price fluctuations, taking down physical game space in stores, and being the first to go nuts on hardware price hikes that they themselves played a big part in.

They're also charging beyond a premium for Helix which is just vile at a time when the economy is in shambles.

The company itself is really not doing itself any favors with the approach they're taking Windows. Even France is looking to ditch Windows in favor of Linux.

But the most offensive thing is this AI push. They're doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on the very technology they're using to replace a considerable proportion of their workforce... And the slap in the face is how they bake copilot into everything when nobody likes it—they couldn't even make Bing stick, so why on earth are they trying so hard? You know it's bad when people would rather use ChatGPT than Copilot which is killing their OS. But aside from their snatching up of farmland to build data centers (and reduce the agriculture capacity of whichever country allows them to build them), they made an AI-generated gamer gurl that loves AI the head of Xbox.

Even if we grant them the full benefit of the doubt, it hardly matters what Xbox wants to do if Nadella says no, and that includes exclusive games. Microsoft's relationship with Xbox is the opposite of Sony's relationship with PlayStation—Microsoft pulls the reins of Xbox, but Sony damn near went under for the PS3.

Tanktopmaster9218d ago (Edited 18d ago )

“If they go back to exclusive games it at least shows that they are finally getting it.”

Great strategy, especially after Forza selling 5 million on PlayStation and sea of thieves selling at least another million (2 million) for example. In March 2026, Xbox consoles sales ratio vs PS was 10:1.

In addition to that, with Gamepass, which unequivocally cuts out chunks of sales (Cannibalizing revenue from 1st month sales especially).

I’m sure going exclusive again after releasing everything on Ps5 is going to work out great for business.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 18d ago
maximusprime_19d ago

Despite all of that, it's clear that Microsoft's Xbox division is broken beyond repair.

19d ago
BeHunted19d ago

PlayStation is currently draining money on flop after flop. It's Sony that needs to re-evaluate their strategy

19d ago
CrashMania19d ago (Edited 19d ago )

Wonder how much money was lost on perfect dark, hellbalde 2, 300 million lost revenue
by putting cod on gamepass. The recent Jason schrier news that Xbox has cancelled dozens of projects, spent 70 billion just to see Xbox sales further collapse and gamepass see little growth.

The fact is this has been PlayStation's most profitable generation and they are making loads of money and selling plenty of consoles and games. While MS won't give you any sales figures or profit numbers for Xbox, says it all really.

S2Killinit19d ago

Sony PlayStation has deservedly dominated xbox. Facts

Tanktopmaster9218d ago (Edited 18d ago )

Ok tween.

Xbox series SX got outsold 10:1 last month. lol.

18d ago
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shadowT19d ago

"Our presence on PC isn’t strong enough."

Fishy Fingers19d ago

It isnt. But I dont think they mean in 'games', rather, footprint.

They own the OS but as far as gaming is concerned, Steam dominate. I imagine the VAST majority of people who use the Xbox app/launcher are PC gamepass subs. No ones buying their 3rd party PC games through Xbox PC.

badz14919d ago

and many gamers prefer SteamOS for gaming over Windows too. If only Valve would be more uncompromising to the anti-cheat makers that locked out non-windows players, more pc gamers would have moved onto SteamOS by now and not looking back to Windows. overall, Win11 is a terrible, bloated, unoptimized OS which is not what many people want

ocelot0718d ago

Agreed and I think that's where they are going to focus on more. I think cheaper games on Windows/Xbox store (MS IP) compared to Steam and Epic and maybe even compared to PSN store as well.

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