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A deep dive into Microsoft’s XBox One’s architecture

The system, CPUs, and main memory under the microscope @hotchips

EDIT:Semi accurate will detail the GPU and other aspects of the system in th coming days.

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semiaccurate.com
NextGen24Gamer4639d ago (Edited 4639d ago )

Everything discussed in the article is in regards to the CPU and how massive & custom it is. What hasn't been talked about is the custom APU/DGPU. That is still under wraps, but just like the CPU has a TON of surprises, the same will be shown with the massively customized APU/DGPU. As stated in the article, more is to come!!!!!

"I see a heap of people trying to add the x1 memory bandwidth and not getting the right figure. They all seem to see that some thing is missing or not adding up. They think ms are fools.. But the real truth is right in front of them.

If they factored in why there is a quad memory design 4x 256bit. Because each gpu and cpu has two read and wright address lines rather then have one big 512bit address line. Ms designed two 256bit gfx cores. Which each can access cpus. That is also why the cpu's are not one big clusters the cpus are split into 4 core. It would have made the cpu recourse worse over a 512bit bus and it would have coursed stalling and fragmentation. This is also why there is two swizzle main accelators / data move engines with 30gbs r/w that are solely for cpu/gpu. Do the maths with a second gpu architecture. Then it will all add up.. the system will not see 5tf performance gains. But 2.4 -3.1 is what has been said at many discussion. Which is why I have said 680 level of performance :)"

http://misterxmedia.livejou...

edgeofsins4639d ago

Oh, so each CPU core is split into 4 cores. So X1 has 24 cores? That's odd that Microsoft wouldn't announce that they have better specs. It's so odd that your "insiders" have the same grammar and choice of words as the author.

NewMonday4639d ago

@Elite24Gamer

your stories are like a wired Terry Gilliam fantasy now.

dazzrazz4639d ago (Edited 4638d ago )

Where do you have 24 cores ? Did you even think what would be the thermal output and how much electricity this thing would eat if that was even possible at this size of a console ? Did you even have a slightest idea what would be the price of the whole console, not even a cpu itself ? Let me put it into perspective 8 core Xeon server cpu costs well over 3k dollars ! The 6 cores i7 3960x dsktop cpu is over $1000 The worst part is 4 idiots already agreed on what you wrote and that's where average console gamer education about hardware ends !

Flutterby4638d ago

Mark elite as spam or trolling he has been using this same guys blog full of made up info in every article he can find , I have a feeling they are all the same person

NextGen24Gamer4638d ago

MS just released info on the custom CPU. They still haven't released the info on the custom GPU...But, like the article states, more is to come about that from Microsoft. Common sense says the reason they didn't brag about actual specs early on is because they don't want Sony to counter their moves. They will wait till its too late for Sony to change anything. I've heard that at TGS, MS will tell about the custom GPU. What we know as of now is that the GPU is 1.3 TFLOPS. What we don't know is what else is on that die. What the CPU structure and insiders are alluding to is a DGPU along with the APU....That would be running at 1.3 to 1.8 TFLOPS. Which would put the xbox one at 2.6 to 3.1 TFLOPS. But, once again, more info will come soon from MS and I've said this before. Everyone thought MS was coo coo for saying that the xbox one can do 4k games....Well, I can say that, with the numbers we had previously...EVERYONE would be correct in assuming that, but obviously MS knows a lot more about their hardware than they are telling at this point. Let SONY brag and boast.

Developers have already said that they are shocked at how the xbox one is only 500 dollars with the amount of tech they put in there. We will soon see the entire picture. MS just has to wait for the point of no return for Sony.

DoesUs4638d ago

@Elite, the point of no return was about 6 months ago.

Just drop it, the hole you are digging is getting bigger by the minute.

TI_214638d ago

Do you seriously believe the BS you are posting?

"Common sense says the reason they didn't brag about actual specs early on is because they don't want Sony to counter their moves."

Common sense says that Sony hasn't been in a position to change anything about their hardware for a long time.
Still no info on anything you keep on posting; It's wrong, simple as that.

Gster4638d ago

@Elite
"Common sense says the reason they didn't brag about actual specs early on is because they don't want Sony to counter their moves. They will wait till its too late for Sony to change anything."
But in the meantime, in the many months running up to the release of the two consoles, they allow Sony to run away with pre-orders, and changing even the minds of xb1 most loyal, don't you think as profit making organisation they would have played probably their strongest hand months ago, I do. Just like they changed all their policy to follow suit with Sony days if not hours after Sony showed the World how to do business.

Freedomland4638d ago

@Elite24Gamer

I think even Microsoft doesn't know what you know about their hardware.
I don't understand why are you lying and creating things out of your delusional fanboys mind. But still i want to explain something to you that people are not interested in the architecture and individual terms and parts, they are more interested in the total output of the parts when they are put together. When you go to buy speakers, you look for watts, more Watts equals more power, when you look at engine of a car you look for horsepower, the more it is, the faster that car will be, nobody cares how they achieve that power they just need the best for their money, same is the case with X1 and Ps4, actually the output of the Ps4 is better than X1 according to the specs and that's what we need, and NO COMPANY, i will repeat here again NO COMPANY in their right mind can release the lesser specs just to be destroyed by the competition first and gain momentum afterwards with higher specs.
People like to buy high end products within affordable price. The answer is PS4, Simple.

4Sh0w4638d ago (Edited 4638d ago )

"That means the XBox One’s 8 Jaguar cores are clocked at ~1.9GHz, something that wasn’t announced at Hot Chips. Now you know."

I thought it was 1.6????

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 4638d ago
DoesUs4639d ago

I'm p!ssing myself laughing at all you findings and posts!

DoesUs4638d ago

Yeah thanks for that. Appreciate your...vigour and enthusiasm. But it's still not happening. Jog on.

ovnipc4638d ago Show
iamnsuperman4638d ago

Stop posting that guy. Microsoft have already announced the specs at the conference. It doesn't change because that link says so. The blog is made up rubbish

DonFreezer4638d ago

The funny thing is the link you have provided has some people who know obviously ten times all of the n4g fanboys together about engineering and you get disagrees because they are so butthurt(the sonyboys)that they thing the truth won't come out.

GarrusVakarian4638d ago (Edited 4638d ago )

You are so boring. Do you know that?

If what you say is true (and that's a very big if), then good, because i plan to get both consoles anyway and the more power the better. But when this most likely explodes in your face, don't be surprised if everyone on this website laughs at you every time you post from then on.

Kayant4638d ago (Edited 4638d ago )

You know your arguement is a complete fail because MS themselves have already said they didn't target the most powerful GPU. ----> http://www.engadget.com/201...

At about 5:49.

So Xbox one having dual GPUs like you say it does makes no sense. And remember these are the guys responsible for designing the architecture of the Xbox one.

So continuing dreaming and when the time comes we will just laugh at you.

Kayant4638d ago (Edited 4638d ago )

@ toxiichollow

I can't disprove that.... However all this says is that the Next-gen consoles could be using a discrete GPU instead of the onboard ones kabini apus use for their graphics solution (These chips are semi custom for a reason after all). Kaveri AMD most powerful apu to date is going to have 512 stream cores.

As far has we know the
XB1 has 768 stream cores
PS4 has 1152 stream cores

Since these chips are semi-custom that means could be using discrete GPU for their graphics solution because not even the soon to be out Kaveri will have the same amount of power.

http://www.extrahardware.co...

What you posted doesn't prove that XB1 is using a dual gpu solution or is more powerful than the PS4.

joefrost004638d ago

Let start by saying I dont believe the X1 has dual GPUs but that leaked document last year remember the one that was 52 pages long they had an diagram of what was inside the.X1 and in that diagram it had dual GPUs

Indo4638d ago (Edited 4638d ago )

@Elite24Gamer

Just pre-order a PS4 and call it a day.

Dakriz4638d ago (Edited 4638d ago )

Why would Elite24Gamer go for what you say when all he is stating how fascinating Tech is, so as long as he work and pays his bills he can get anything he wants now if you love PS4 so much go and buy him one and call it a day.

P0werVR4638d ago

That guy is a mad lunatic.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 4638d ago
thetruthx14639d ago ShowReplies(1)
GodGinrai4639d ago

I was the one that submitted the article. I cant make sense of most of what it says as I am not that tech savvy. hoping this gets approved so those on N4G that do can enlighten the rest of us.

PeEsFour4-Four4639d ago (Edited 4639d ago )

Im enlighting you: xbox one has worse specs than Ps4.

/jk.

I've no idea what this means.

NewMonday4638d ago

@The realness

Its basically the same as what was leaked many months back, so the MS presentation just confirms what we already know.

you can find breakdowns on NeoGaf.

Mike134nl4638d ago (Edited 4638d ago )

@newmonday
It is the same as was leaked but with more details. After the hUMA rumours for the ps4 It was not clear if the xb1 could do the same trick. Now they also seem to be capable of using unified memory similar to hUMA (allowing for lower latency). Also interesting is the inclusion of 8gb flash (guess only usage for that is quickly saving of game status).

In the end it is pretty clear that Microsoft has modified their standard chips, but there are still questions remaining on some specifics.

iamnsuperman4638d ago (Edited 4638d ago )

Neogaf is the best place to go to find out what is going on. People here have no clue here but NeoGaf people clearly have a greater understanding

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

It might have a lot of DBZ references or other random crap but if you look past that it will enlighten you

theWB274638d ago

That's funny, on your first link, the second post asks what the DBZ power level is. The best is I'll understand if they do translate it to DBZ terms.

Cueil4638d ago

they should have used The Bible... where Sony finally excepted PC into it's heart and was saved from the hell of super custom cpus

corvusmd4638d ago

@new monday...this is NOT the same thing that was leaked many months ago. It seems like everyone that was at the conference was shocked in a good way.

Show all comments (53)
60°

Final Fantasy X 25th Anniversary Website Launches With New Nomura Artwork and Merchandise

Square Enix launches Final Fantasy X 25th anniversary site, revealing new Nomura art, books, music releases, and merchandise.

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twistedvoxel.com
-Foxtrot14d ago

Look I know VIII has its issues and all that but how on earth can the do big anniversary events with new artwork and merchandise for VII, IX and X yet VIII got sweet f*** all.

They could have given it something during its 25th anniversary yet all it got was a single Happy Anniversary post on their social media.

solideagle13d ago

they should know that we are OG fans of VIII as it sold truckload as well. not as much as VII or X. I personally didn't like IX but X and VI are my personal fav.

Shadow Hearts 2 covenant is another game I love. I hope one day someone can make remake, I would be delighted

Relientk7713d ago

Final Fantasy VIII is great and you are always the first to defend it in the comments

70°

Xbox boss: Memory crisis could impact next-gen hardware pricing

Xbox boss Asha Sharma has discussed how component shortages will impact the company's plans for Project Helix.

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gamedeveloper.com
Eonjay14d ago

When does this end? Its killing everyone. Consoles and PC. And for what? AI? The benefits of AI are completely outweighed by the negatives. And the government should have never allowed one company to buy up all the RAM.

Lexreborn215d ago

This kind of proves this is an after thought product, most products like this are in r&d 5 years before they start mass producing. So they typically have the cost of components and things worked out long before assembly starts.

This is an assumption still, but I wouldn’t be surprised if project helix is similar to Scalebound,perfect dark and sod3. They had an idea but no actual execution other than concept stage. Being impacted by the ram shortage likely would also put this device 3-4 years out.

I’m not even sure MS has that endurance with Xbox yet

Fishy Fingers15d ago (Edited 15d ago )

I mean.... what?

We're at a point that Samsung wont even provide their own phone department ram because they can sell it at higher prices to 3rd parties (AI). Its more profitable to sell the ram than make their own devices with it.

You think because R&D starts 5 years ago the 3rd party component manufacturers will honour that price? They'll sell it to whomever is paying the most today, not some gentlemens agreement they made years ago. AI farms will buy more volume at higher prices than any console manufacturer will. It'll be the same for Playstation.

Lexreborn214d ago

Contractual agreements are not the same as “gentlemen” agreements. If you think that they work with their distributors a month before production then their entire business model is trash. They work with companies like nvidia constantly for building the graphics cards they need. They work with companies that build motherboards years in advance. This is what proper business planning does.

They are not buying components on a whim like a consumer. So again, considering the ram isn’t a singular module and is integrated into the motherboard I highly doubt they wouldn’t have a final schematic that they are supposed to be building around.

If they are delaying production another 3 years then it’s obvious again this is an after though project and is just trying to be responsive to their bad execution they had the last 14 years.

It also isn’t far fetched to use their failure to produce first party titles the last 7 years including the highly anticipated games I mentioned all being cancelled. That they would continue to you know… lie

Sitdown15d ago

You don't really know how this works huh?

Profchaos15d ago (Edited 15d ago )

Helix is going to be stupidly expensive

Instead of leaning into smarter upscaling techniques they're brute forcing hardware that will cost them dearly and it remains to be seen if it's genuinely going to provide a meaningful differential

I know in the oc.doace people like to brag about not using frame gen or dlss to get to high on a game but for the majority of players they happily use those technologies without a second thought

That's going to be ps6 vs Helix

Eonjay14d ago

Yeah with FSR 5 they should be able to offer a much cheaper version of Helix.

Eonjay14d ago

While this does seem to be the case, I am encouraged by the statement from Microsoft about wanting to provide affordable options. If this means a Series S style Helix, at least there will be something affordable being offered.

XBManiac14d ago

Series S is what has killed Xbox Series so... Will they dare?

blacktiger15d ago

It's called systematic inflationary. Yes we get it Microsoft, keep raising in the name ofall kinds of stuffs

pwnmaster300015d ago

Honestly if there was thing I learned from this generation is that new consoles arnt day one anymore.
I can wait 1-3 years.

DarXyde15d ago

Another important lesson from this generation: while Nintendo showed us that prices don't necessarily need to ever drop, we've now learned that waiting 1-3 years does carry some risk that prices increase. This generation is just bizarre in all the wrong ways.

LucasRuinedChildhood15d ago (Edited 15d ago )

The factors are largely external. Covid and Russia-Ukraine war causing inflation led to the first price increase in 2022.

Then we get Trump's tariffs increasing hardware prices, AI boom causing a RAM crisis, war on Iran causing a worldwide fuel crisis which impacts the cost of everything.

Gaming doesn't exist in a vacuum. The last few years have been a shitshow and lot of it was definitely avoidable.

DarXyde14d ago

LucasRuinedChildhood,

For sure. No disagreement on the external factors doing a lot of this. Where I have to gently push back however is on two fronts:

1. The pandemic definitely caused some issues: asynchronous development was a big issue and really complicated timelines and affected game quality. At the same time, when it comes to price hikes, it's really difficult to know what was genuine necessity and what was taking consumers for a ride. The pandemic brought about "stag-flation" which was increasing prices and stagnant wages, which was a problem caused by supply chain constraints. There was also "Greed-flation", where companies that were slightly affected or had no issues took advantage of the situation and squeezed everyone citing supply chain issues when there were none.

2. It's definitely true that the tariffs, AI boom, and RAM crisis were all things enabled by tech broligarchs throwing money at this caricature of a world leader, one of them being Satya Nadella. I don't think Sony and Nintendo have contributed much to this problem if at all, but Microsoft's Nadella I feel was instrumental in causing every one of those issues. Microsoft as a company contributed to both candidates (though they gave Harris 4x as much if I recall), but Nadella was all in on letting AI run wild. He paid for unregulated AI, and got a war that's not a war (even though Trump called it that at least five times on television) that screwed up helium access. So for me, I feel that one of the players in the gaming industry is a key architect of these issues, and for that reason I struggle a bit to think of it as "external".

Show all comments (28)
40°

Star Wars: Bounty Hunter Let Jango Fett Loose

LucasArts gave Jango Fett his own game in 2002, and it pulled Star Wars into a much dirtier, rougher, and more interesting corner of the galaxy.

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swtorstrategies.com
Relientk7718d ago

I remember playing this back in the day on PS2. What a sick game!