140°

Objectivity vs. Dragon’s Crown

Video games need objectivism, and it is wrong to think otherwise. Much like cinematography and film direction, video games have elements wherein an opinion can shine; however, there is objectivism in understanding the structure, style, and composition of the elements that converge to make a single scene, an act, an entire film or game.

Read Full Story >>
doubleplusgoodgames.com
MestreRothN4G4572d ago

Stopped reading at "and it is wrong to think otherwise".

DoublePlusGoodGames4572d ago

I can always move that line down a few paragraphs. ;)

But seriously, I am also not a big fan of Ayn Rand's 'objectivism' philosophy but we allowed James the opportunity to expand upon that premise as long as it provided the construct of the article and not the content. I think that James did a great job making the argument that "if you don't inherently like something (say, 2D beat 'em ups) and are providing your opinion on that subject, why are you in the discussion in the first place and how can you claim to remain objective?"

As for me, I'm a romantic and believe that we all have the ability to make decisions, and form opinions, based on our own emotions and faculties. I can unabashedly say that I absolutely love Dragon's Crown, controversy and all.

HakatoX4572d ago

seriously the clothes women choose to wear has been a focus on reverse bigotry that needs to be levied immediately. Many women choose to wear revealing clothing. stop claiming foul in a world of expression and freedom. I dont think Leisure suit larry never got this kind of flak.
playboy isn't degrading women like penthouse it empowers them in a way most wont understand.

which brings a bigger question...
If a woman CHOOSES to pose or wear revealing clothing is it objectifying or expressing.
only reason I ask is look at the clothing of the era of King Henry VIII.

HakatoX4572d ago (Edited 4572d ago )

thank you.

@ disagree... would love to hear why someone disagrees instead of just hitting a button. why am I wrong, what is the part of my post that you disagree with. unless its GAMERUK cause then yer just being petty.

Swiftfox4572d ago

Your entire argument is flawed. You are speaking of real, living, breathing, independent women who choose to dress however they like- that is their right as human beings.

The female characters within video games are not real. They do not choose to wear those outfits and they do not choose to act how they do. These female characters are designed for men, to appeal to men, and to sell to men. They are a negative representation of women, and say women exist solely to attract the eye of the male—something for the male to look at while he plays the game.

This excludes a majority of the female audience. When you are selling a product to an audience that mis-represents a demographic to directly appeal to another—it's wrong.

You can not compare the free choice of living women to products created by men to sell to other men. If a woman wishes to pose nude for a magazine, fine—it's her choice. If a man creates a video game where a woman is barely dressed and over sexualized for no other reason but to sell to other men— it's wrong.

Niveous4572d ago

Hey. I wrote the article. I agree with you completely. Just letting you know.

My argument isn't about sexism, or how to approach it in our niche of the world. It's about having a proper time, place, and audience to hold relevant discussion.

SexyGamerDude4572d ago

Dude, shut up.

It's not wrong because that over sexualized woman is that man's artistic vision.

It's his game and he has the right to put whatever he wants into it.

Are you trying to say that WWE games are wrong because of a negative representation of men?

Big boobs and skimpy clothes = Win. Get over it.

HakatoX4572d ago (Edited 4572d ago )

great way to avoid the Henry VIII question... its a period piece. bodices and corsets were common for the style they try to represent.

as you feel my logic is flawed. I see yours as flawed.
these arent real. its fake. to get twisted up overartistic representation is a feeble attempt to bring meaning or soul to a soulless object.

mosses sculpted with horns, Michelangelo with david and venus. the sisten chapel
all contain nude or scantelly dressed people. just cause a group thinks its one way and not for them it's condemnable. wasnt there a group who burned stacks of great literature cause it didnt suit their agenda..... (hint: WWII) those who dont learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

Swiftfox4572d ago

@ Niveous

My reply was to the individual posing a tired and pathetic argument to rationalize the constant objectification and sexism running rampant in the games industry.

This discussion is long over due, and whenever it does come up it's met with a ravenous uproar that derails the entire thing. A person could write an article about the topic and it's ignored. People have created videos and the creators have been insulted and pushed aside. Women held a panel at PAX on this very topic and it was ignored while the women where constantly insulted by the cesspool that is any twitch chat room.

This topic can not wait and be put aside yet again—change needs to happen.

Hicken4572d ago

The flaw in your own argument is in that we cannot KNOW that WE are real. The very way that we affirm our own existences is the same as how characters look at themselves.

Simply put: we CANNOT know that we aren't just characters in a video game. For all we know, you and I are fluff: side characters in someone else's story.

That aside, you... well, the more I look at that second paragraph, the more I realize you haven't a clue what the hell you're talking about. You have a blindfolded, willfully ignorant view is evident, and there's not a thing I or anyone else could say to change that.

Oh, and newsflash: men and women in real life are designed to appeal to each other. Somebody or something designed us that way, JUST LIKE THE CHARACTERS in video games.

But hey. You apparently know it all; why let a little thing like knowing NOTHING stop you?

HakatoX4572d ago (Edited 4572d ago )

hicken,
thats stonner logic if I ever heard any.
I never claimed to know it all. Just presenting the other side.
or would you preffer I stiffle myself like the good bigot want me too?
see we all do it and not even notice, as you showed us.

Swiftfox4572d ago

@Hakoto

You're comparing the current game industry to the Renaissance era artists. The Renaissance was brought about due to the resurgence of the old Greek ideal—that being young and being male is the highest state any person could hope to achieve. It was called the Greek male-ideal. The statues you reference of men are examples of perfection of the male form. There are no flaws, no marks, they are perfect and beautiful. It's not the statue is nude, it's what the statue represents.

If you look at the female statues, you'll see the over sexualized female figure. Have you ever noticed the women often lack genitals in those works(see the Medici Venus)? The males that carved them believed the women form to be dirty and removed the figures own sexual power. Again—it's not the nudity that is the issue, it's the motive, the culture in which it was created, and a complete understanding of the piece.

I feel it's a good time to remind you that the art world is a male dominated one as well. Hundreds of thousands of tapestries, paintings, sculptures of women destroyed during and after the Renaissance. If you were female and an artist in the Renaissance, you were less than a common whore to society. Yes, we've certainly learned a lot from history. The Renaissance was a a toxic and dangerous environment to women, it was a male dominated environment where men could further the influence of male ideas at the expense of women.

Enter the gaming world. The gaming world is a toxic and dangerous environment to women and it's a male dominated environment where men further the influence of male ideas at the expense of women.

What was that you said about history and repeating it?
Please learn to Art.

4572d ago
+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 4572d ago
Hicken4572d ago

Um, get your mind right.

I was agreeing with you, and DISAGREEING with Swiftfox's ridiculous statement.

Had you bothered to READ my comment, it would have been rather evident.

wynams4572d ago

"Pendulous breasts NEVER make a game sexist, a female char who is victimized, oppressed by men, or taken advantage of, or abused is sexist" ~ Erin Fitzgerald, VG Voice-over artist

DoublePlusGoodGames4572d ago

I hadn't ever heard that one before, Wynams. Adding that to the ol' quote notebook*

* For full disclosure, it's actually it's a Word doc, not a notebook.

Swiftfox4572d ago

No, breasts have never been the problem. The problem is games simply including women to support the role of the man.

The problem is men creating female characters as nothing but eye candy for the male audience they wish to sell to.

The problem is the misrepresentation of women within the confines of an artistic medium.

The problem is executives that believe their games won't sell unless there is a male lead.

The problem is males rejection of women as gamers with constant insults and sexual slurs against online female gamers.

The problem is a male audience that actual argues the merits of objectification in an industry completely toxic to women and deep, brilliant female characters.

This is oppression, that is taking advantage of, and that is being victimized. That IS sexist.

DoublePlusGoodGames4572d ago

Swiftfox, you do realize that the game is also empowering women by making them kick ass in the game. Both the Amazon and Sorceress (and Elf for that matter) all are powerful representations of women.

Additionally, as a college educated man...a fat, college educated man...a fat, college educated man who is balding (read: bald) I have to say that the shirtless, tiny-headed men in the game are a gross mis-representation of men.

As for the comments of insults and sexual slurs, that's a much smaller microcosm of gamers than you'd think. As a person who has developed video games on teams with both men and women, I can assure you that not all gamer, game companies and high-level executives are looking to victimize women for profit. Additionally, if you go to E3, PAX, Comic-Con and other trade events you'll see that gamers, both male and female, tend to revel in the pastime over wallowing in tropes.

ThisJarContainsTHC4572d ago (Edited 4572d ago )

lol deal with it. Gaming was fine without you.

Go outside, get a life, stop getting bootyblasted over FICTIONAL FUCKING CHARACTERS.

Why don't you pick some real issues to get outraged about, there are PLENTY of them.

This is a NON-ISSUE. End of story. In more sane times in the past, the notion of this VG feminist "movement" (lol bowel movement) would have been laughed off. I think the drugs are to blame, and not the illegal ones. The werlds goin crayzay!

HakatoX4572d ago (Edited 4572d ago )

I get what you say but like how rockstar is getting flak for no women in lead for GTA.
the fact of the matter is women in the drug world rarely have clout in a world lile that and most who become big in the criminal world end up locked up or murdered.

but including a woman in gta is a double edged sword. women have it rough in the slums (ask my mother) I have watched women try to be dealers and such ony to be met by brutal means of a sociopath. I have watced women known for beating up guys get more than that of a man when it coms to unerhanded actions.

including a woman in gta would put targets on the head of rockstar cause the realism invlved with the treatment of women in that environment.

the world has many double standards but Ambecrombe and finch can go on objectifying men....
most women dont even notice that....yes its easy to accept or deny taking sides but we all do it one way or another.

I dont like it when my wife takes out the trash.... is that sexist?

70°

Raidou Remastered Q&A on Game Content, Platform Details, Release Information

Atlus has released a Q&A for Raidou Remastered: The Mystery of the Soulless Army covering system information and release details

Read Full Story >>
personacentral.com
gold_drake292d ago

interesting thing is, that the switch 2 is still the inferior version, despite it being more powerful.

70°

Atlus Shares New Details on RAIDOU Remastered: The Mystery of the Soulless Army, Launching This June

Atlus reveals new characters, demons, and gameplay systems for RAIDOU Remastered: The Mystery of the Soulless Army ahead of its June launch.

Read Full Story >>
clouddosage.com
60°

Atlus Bringing Back Devil Summoner With New Remaster

Raidou Kuzunoha Remastered: The Mystery of the Soulless Army is coming this summer.

Read Full Story >>
thegamer.com
SimpleSlave319d ago

This is just sad. The PS2 version actually looks better during the gameplay segments. Regardless, come the fudge on, Atlus. It has been almost 20 years, and this is the best you can offer us? Seriously? Could it not have looked like Master Detective Archives (PS5) or something closer to today's standards?

Excited and disappointed at the same time. Atlus really hates old-school Shin Megami/Persona without a doubt. They put so little effort into that side of the catalog. Sheesh...

Vits319d ago

The original looking better is a joke. Between the low-poly models and the low-resolution textures slapped onto the pre-rendered backgrounds, there's no serious argument that it holds up against the fully 3D-rendered visuals in the remaster. That said, what the original had was a lighting system that gave it a somber atmosphere, which is now completely gone.

This is just another Demon’s Souls or Majora’s Mask 3D situation. The graphics are objectively better, but the soul got left behind in that process.

SimpleSlave319d ago

Then you need to check your eyesight, because those gameplay sections they showed did not lived up to the original in any way shape or form.

"there's no serious argument"
"That said, what the original had was a lighting system that gave it a somber atmosphere, which is now completely gone."
😐
Anyways, aside from you making the argument for me, the fact is that just stating specs is not an argument. The old game simply has a better presentation, mood, and an all around unique and well made Shin Megami look. Something the new gameplay shown has not. From what they showed, the backgrounds, the lighting, especially during the Dark Realm sections, and the entire presentation feels like one of those SquareEnix's cheap looking remastered games they like to insult us with.

"This is just another Demon’s Souls or Majora’s Mask 3D situation. The graphics are objectively better, but the soul got left behind in that process."
You serious? Neither of those were cheap looking. They might've change some stuff, sure, but cheap they were not. This one, on the other hand? C'mon. Be realistic. This is as basic looking as it comes. I've seen Indie games looking like AAA titles when compared to this. While Persona 3 gets a remastered to a remastered plus a remake, the Shin side of Atlus catalog gets the cheap treatment. It's just sad. Also, like a said, compare this to Master Detective Archives on the PS5, and then tell me they put any time or money into this cheap ass looking game. You know they didn't.

In the end, it just looks bad. And I would honestly have them release the PS1/PS2/SegaCD/SNES Shin and Persona games on the Digital Stores than get this type of cheap looking product. Those, I would buy in a heartbeat. This? Maybe on a sale... maybe.

I know the old Shin Megami/Persona games were more adult oriented and don't appeal to today's trendy anime fan, but their old catalog deserves SO much better than this is all I'm saying.

gold_drake319d ago (Edited 319d ago )

it almost looks like they re did everything. from the characters, to the demons, to the whole game rly.

thw one thing that i personally didnt like, is how raidou moves. looks weird ha and it looked abit washed out too

SegaSaturn669319d ago

This is one of the worst SMT games. There was opportunity to fix it here but it looks like a pretty barebones remaster. The issue is that the demons you summon participate in real time hack and slash combat but they act stupidly and get in the way clumsily bumbling around. It's very annoying.

gold_drake319d ago

i dont think its the worst.

the og is really text heavy with really foreign terms and words no one from the west has any idea what they are or mean ha.

TheColbertinator318d ago

I appreciate the Raidou games but they could use some serious quality enhancements like the new SMT and Persona games for gameplay.