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Analyzing the PS4 / Xbox 720 GPU

The specs for Sony’s successor to the PlayStation brand, the PS4 will feature parts from AMD. Advanced Micro Devices are supplying both the GPU (graphics processing unit) and the CPU for the new system.

This article gives some insight on why certain things are as they are, what to expect and how it all works.

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redgamingtech.com
yewles14780d ago

PS4's Liverpool GPU is confirmed to have 512KB L2 Cache and has 1.848TFLOPS performance. Also, the PS4's CU's are unified for both graphics and GP compute.

GameNameFame4779d ago

and obviously 720 with far less flops of 1.2

DatNJDom814779d ago (Edited 4779d ago )

Confirmed that xbox will hold PS4 back next gen once again when it comes to multiplats.

m$: Ok guys, heres a "BASKET". Make sure that the games dont look better on PS4.

Developers 1: But, we can push this just a little more. Our fans deserve the best possible outcome for the game were making, right?

Developer 2: Shut up and take the "BASKET"!

pc fanboyz: "This game will look better on my nvidiazzzz 7.1Tflop masterbation gfx card! Zieg Heil!"

Gaming1014779d ago

A lot of technical speculation that doesn't have all the facts right, like the teraflops on PS4 etc. The NextBox specs are still just rumoured based on what we know so far, so this would be more useful once we know confirmed final specs.

Really we're just splitting hairs here. Devs will be able to come up with whatever will work, however the PS4 won't be held back, the NextBox will just be pared down versions of PS4 games. The only thing holding back would be space limitations, and evidently you install all games to the hard drive of the Nextbox, which has people nuts since it disables used games. It just means you'll be standing around installing 6 DVD discs since Msoft won't support Bluray even if it kills them.

NewMonday4779d ago

from the recent M.Cerny interview the APIs are still not optimized for HSA like programming, when that happens expect a much higher level of performance from the APU.

ProjectVulcan4779d ago (Edited 4779d ago )

Various little inaccuracies in the report. All you need to know I guess is that the core is maybe 15 percent slower than a 7970M because of cut down CU units and clocks and less than half the performance of a full blown desktop standard 7970 I. e not the gigahertz edition which is even faster.

Memory bandwidth about the same as the 7970M because I have seen 20gb/s or so claimed to be used by the CPU which is roughly what you would expect.

But we known this for some time now...

hesido4779d ago

[Because the ram is shared] "the amount of [bandwith] that the GPU will have ‘available’ will likely be considerably lower than this."

This is not accurate. It won't be "considerably" lower, as CPU bandwidth requirements will be MUCH lower compared to the GPU, so the GPU will have the lion's share of the bandwidth.

Plus, it makes me think they didn't exactly grasp what "unified" ram means. The unified ram will allow 0 copy operations between CPU and GPU, any one of their outputs will be accessible by the eachother without having to move data around, which is a MASSIVE gain and will open up a lot of possibilities further down the PS4 life cycle. As openCL and HSA libraries mature, PS4 will continue to offer performance gains that currently few can imagine.

nunley334779d ago

@gaming101 If rumors are to be believed, the 720 will have blu-ray. The 360 struggled alot with many games especially in the 2nd half with dvd 9 so how bad would it be with much bigger 720 games? It'll have blu-ray for sure, even if it's like the WII-U with no blu-ray movies supported.

TheXonySbox4779d ago

confirmed; next gen consoles holding back PC gaming yet again.

MysticStrummer4779d ago (Edited 4779d ago )

Has the 720 GPU been confirmed? If not, can we hold off on these articles until it has been?

Having said that, lol @ DatNDom81's script.

@TheXonySbox - Get your PC brethren to pay full price for more games and that might change. Consoles don't hold back PC gaming. PC gamers hold back PC gaming with piracy and buying new games at incredible discounts. Besides that, people who pimp out a gaming PC overestimate how many other people actually do that. Most PC gaming is done on stock PCs or PCs with minimal upgrades. Devs aren't going to put in too much extra effort so that relatively few people get marginally better graphics.

Muerte24944779d ago (Edited 4779d ago )

gamers say that consoles are holding PC games back. It's kinda hard to hold PC back when games don't get released on PC until 6 months after consoles have it (Mainstream games). Anyone remember Super Street Fighter? Did Gears 2 or 3 even make it to PC? I'm mentioning xbox360 games because the architectures were similar.

PLASTICA-MAN4779d ago

The article is just biased, just downplaying the PS4. If it was objective it would mention this :

PS4 GPU is based on GCN 2.0 architecture. PS4 GCN has 8 ACE's, each capable of running 8 CL's each. Tahiti is 2 per ACE, 2 ACE's.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

And it was confirmed by Mark Cerny these days:

"This idea has 8 pipes and each pipe(?) has 8 computation queues. Each queue can execute things such as physics computation middle ware, and other prioprietarily designed workflows. This, while simultaneously handling graphics processing."

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

That's a damn amount of processing power and units that the article forgot to mention. This alone will make the PS4 outshine.

darthv724779d ago

all i see on here is:

blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah.

No its , blah blah blah. NOT blah blah blah!

you all just need to just be patient for the final release. Then it will get torn down and analyzed piece by piece by every tech site in the known internet.

The current ps3 and 360 offer good games. The 720 and PS4 will no doubt offer good games but for that to happen, we need to let these guys work out the details of what this does and where does that go.

Is that too much to ask?

+ Show (9) more repliesLast reply 4779d ago
ATi_Elite4775d ago (Edited 4775d ago )

can someone please inform me when did SONY confirm a HD7970m for the PS4?

Oh wait they didn't so this article is FAIL!

the ONLY gpu specs we got were 1.84tFlops of compute performance which puts it nicely at a HD7790 level (1.79tflops) when u add the addition 4 compute units that the PS4 version will have now you may get 1.84tflops

(HD7970 is 3.79 tflops)
(HD7970m is 2176 gflops yes gflops)

PS4 is NOT getting a HD7970 or HD7970m way to make stuff up stupid website!

The HD7790 is low watt and has watt tune software that manages watt consumption and is most likely what is going into the PS4.

Now Granted Sony has NOT confirmed anything but going by factual SPECS this seems more realistic.

I'm so amazed how these websites just make crap up to get hits from consolers who just don't check facts as they are too busy glorifying any article that promotes their console as a hero machine.

This website just made up this HD7970m CRAP!

Story = WTF
Like website = NO

iGAM3R-VIII4780d ago

Well even though the desktop version seems only slightly better, it means that the console will be easier to push to their limit which means better quality games

zmack4779d ago (Edited 4779d ago )

Well the desktop version isn't exactly "slightly" better. Both AMD and Nvidia tend to tone down their mobile GPUs a bit compared to their counterparts and name them accordingly for marketing purposes. Basically, they want to make the consumer see a 7970 or 680 desktop card and then when said consumer checks out a laptop they will see a 7970 and a 680, but the catch is the added m at the end. However, Nvidia did release a 680mx variant and it has the full cuda core count as the desktop version. So, yeah, both companies love to play on names like this, but their mobile cards are still pretty decent.

Steam processors can make a big difference in performance. The 7970m has 1280, which is a bit less than the 2048 found on the 7970. So, I'm sure you have seen a lot of people compare the PS4 GPU to a 7870 desktop version, well that's because it has 1280 stream processors just like the 7970m.

http://www.newegg.com/Produ...

http://www.notebookcheck.ne...

So, let's compare the 7870 to a 7970 in benchmarks:

http://www.guru3d.com/artic...

http://www.anandtech.com/sh...

There can be a 10-20fps difference when comparing the two cards. So, the 7970 can be a bit more powerful depending on the game than the 7870. There's also a GHZ edition of the 7970 desktop GPU with even higher clocks as well. Furthermore, the GPU in the PS4 is running at lower clock speeds than the 7870, so there is a bit more of an fps gap than what was previously stated (7870 = 1GHz and 7970m = 850Mhz).

However, the great news is that a 7970m is still an awesome GPU and it can run a lot games at some nice settings. So, Sony still really picked out some nice hardware for their system.

JsonHenry4779d ago

Can someone explain to me how the next xbox's "move engines" work and how that will change the performance of the console?

Cueil4779d ago (Edited 4779d ago )

the purpose of the move engine is to basically increase the productivity of the bandwidth available. One of the things that you have to understand is that the 1.2 tflops of the next Xbox will be realized. Most GPUs are 40-60 percent their theoretical peaks. Microsoft uses a varied of methods to achieve near 100 percent theoretical limitation. And remember the PS2 could do more flops then the original Xbox... I think we all understand how much more powerful the Xbox was then the PS2... it's more then flops that's just the new "Bits" of the past two generations.

(was that two dumbed down? I'm really tired, but in reality we wont know exactly how much effect they'll have till the specs are out and people get their hands on it outside of the NDAs)

NewMonday4779d ago

from what I understand they are for going around bottlenecks. the PS4 GPU has a cache bypass that dose something like it.

JsonHenry4779d ago

No, that explained it well enough for me. I have a novice's understand of PC hardware and the like (been building my own for 15 years) just I was not sure how the move engine was being used. I guess just making the system more efficient would help more than adding raw throughput since the flops of performance thing is generally way over-rated in terms of what is "capable" vs. what is "actual". Thank you for your reply. +1 bubble

THEDON82z14779d ago (Edited 4779d ago )

@Cueil = TRU what you said,but microsoft problem will be the same one PS3 HAD.It will take heavy optimization(time/resources=MO NEY) AND UNLESS microsoft builds up some REALLY good 1st party studios to take advantage OF IT LIKE SONY did with ps3,then it will really just become another road block in developers way when trying to get there game out in a timely mannor.As I said in another post, the slight advantage they had by desighning this system was killed when Sony double its gddr5 ram.You also have to remember that even when Sony pump all that money into 1st party R/D it still took alot time for developers to really harness it.The result was multiplates on PS3 struggled(in the beggining)untill they built it on ps3 then ported to xbox. Thats what I see is coming to the next xbox when everyone starts asking about 1080p/60fps as a standard.The only diffrence will be that I believe developers will for the most part stick with ps4/pc as lead development.

Cueil4779d ago

What people don't seem to get is that programing for the X720 is not going to be any different then what they were doing with the 360 only instead porting games over to and from PS4 will be easier since they share the same hardware programming language and both use Microsoft Visual Studio if I'm not mistaken... a great move by Sony if they were not already doing so. Microsoft isn't becoming some kind of complex piece of hardware it's simply creating efficiency and that seems to be the direction Microsoft and AMD have been moving towards. I'm not going to pretend to know the real specs of the Xbox, but my guess is that the system is being build so that programmers can access it's power at or near theoretical limits.

THEDON82z14779d ago

@Cueil -I hope you are right because if the rumors are true and 3 out of 8 gigs of ram is for OS,they are good to need every trick they can get once next gen games start to muture around 2014/15.I dont want to see my PS4 (MULTIPLATFORM) GAMES held back in anyway.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 4779d ago
Skynetone4779d ago (Edited 4779d ago )

while the xbox is busy doing calculations, the move engines are free to add even more calculations

its like a turbo boost

what does it mean in the real world, i guess well have to wait for halo 5

4779d ago
DeadlyFire4779d ago (Edited 4779d ago )

Move engines do boost, but still not to the same level. It will be slower. 32 MB ESRAM with move engines waiting in line with data at 100 GB/s can only boast so much with data while 8 GB can run at 176 GB/s on PS4.

Cueil4779d ago

I understand that the numbers look pretty, but bandwidth is a lot more complex then some of you seem to understand. I'm by no means an expert, but there are all kinds issues with just throwing up arbitrary numbers without understanding all the parts and technology behind those numbers. Do we know how much memory and cycles the OS is going to take up or how much is going to be reserved for the social features of each console? That stuff takes up bandwidth.

4779d ago Replies(3)
Mkai284778d ago

Xbox 720 has four move engines itself which allows for fast direct memory access to take place.

Their true purpose is to take workloads off of the rest of the system while yielding positive results at low cost.AKA "Secret Sauce"

The four move engines have abilities such as: from main RAM or from ESRAM, to main RAM or to ESRAM, from linear or tiled memory format, to linear or tiled memory format, from a sub-rectangle of a texture, to a sub-rectangle of a texture, from a sub-box of a 3D texture and to a sub-box of a 3D texture.

Each of the four move engines can read and create 256 bits of date per GPU clock cycle, which equals out to be a peak throughput of 25.6 GB/s two ways.

All of the engines use a single memory path, resulting in the best throughput for all of the engines that would be the same for only one of the engines.

They share their bandwidth with different components of the GPU, like video encode and decode, the command processor and the display output. The other source typically only consume a small amount of the bandwidth.

The great thing about the move engines is they can operate at the same time as computation is taking place. When the GPU is doing computations, the engines operations are still available. While the GPU is working on bandwidth, move engine operations can still be available so long as they use different pathways.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 4778d ago
DragonKnight4779d ago

I think it's great that redgamingtech.com knows what's in the Xbox 720 when no one else does.

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60°

Next-Gen Xbox on Track for 2027 Release According to AMD

AMD has mentioned that the next-gen Xbox is on track for release in 2027, which means we might be in the final year of the Series X|S.

88d ago
KicksnSnares88d ago

Xbox is dead. How are they making another console? Fake news lol

fr0sty87d ago (Edited 87d ago )

They might think taking a crack at the PC/console hybrid approach might work out for them... but with PS6 delayed until 2029 at least, there went the power advantage that paying all that extra money was supposed to afford them once PS6 does launch. Also, releasing a console right now is stupid with RAM prices as high as they are. Either we're gonna be forking out $1200-1500 for this thing, or it's going to get downgraded. It costs over $700 to put 64GB of RAM into a PC right now because all the AI datacenters are buying up ALL the RAM.

Maybe a select few gamers will be willing to fork out that much $ for a system that is more powerful than PS5 Pro, but most gamers are only just now feeling like PS5 is hitting its stride and still has a few years of life left in it before we need to move on to a new generation. Plus, by the time PS6 does launch, RAM prices will be stablizing, so PS6 will be able to put much more of its overall budget towards a more powerful GPU and CPU vs. having to spend such a large chunk of the budget just on RAM like the new Xbox will, assuming it does drop next year while still in the midst of this RAM crisis.

Reaper22_87d ago (Edited 87d ago )

People said the same thing about xbox 360 launching early but it turned out pretty good. Microsoft's R&D is much larger and more cash rich than Sony's. They have the money to do it. One of the reason Sony is waiting because they arent ready to spend billions more on hardware and the PS5 is still selling and that would definitely hurt their sales. Plus they just released Ps5 pro.
The series x isn't selling well so for Microsoft its a good time to get ready for next gen. The next console from xbox is gonna be for core gamers and no matter when sony launches it probably wont have many advances over Magnus if any at all. Im confident it will be on par or better than the next Playstation. Even the series x does features that ps5 or the pro still cant do. Sony shouldn't of released the PS5 pro. Imo its not needed and underwhelming. They could of used what they spent on that for the PS6

salis84487d ago (Edited 87d ago )

First, no one actually said that PS6 is delayed.

The rumor started with Tom Henderson saying he thought PlayStation might consider delaying the PS6 due to RAM prices. He specifically did not say that he heard that they were going to delay it or anything like that, it was 100% speculation, and he never implied otherwise.

That said, let them delay it, the PS5 Pro especially with FSR 4 coming in the next month or so, will be more than sufficient. There isn't going to be any publishers, including Microsoft, willing to skip PlayStation's user base, especially when publishers seem eager to put games on Switch 2 which is a significant step down even from the base PS5. So, the idea that having more power is really going to shift things in their favor is extremely hard to believe.

Microsoft can make as many consoles as they want, the issue is convincing people to buy them.

Both the PS5 and the Switch 2 sold double the amount of consoles in December that the SX sold in the entire year of 2025. And I doubt that a super expensive co-pilot box is going to help them, especially if you look at the lackluster sales AI equipped PC's have seen.

87d ago
Eonjay87d ago

The next Xbox issaid to have 36 GB of memory so the price short from ram should not be as apocalyptic as a 64 GB kit. With the PS6 coming in with 30 GB, the RAM should not be what makes the Xbox cost so much more. Of course without Microsoft subsidizing the console the actual MSRPs may diverge wildly.

fr0sty87d ago (Edited 87d ago )

32GB of DDR5 still costs in the neighborhood of $250-300 for the super cheap stuff, $450 for the name brand. That's what entire consoles used to cost. That eats up a huge chunk of the budget that was supposed to be paying for the CPU and GPU, which means that the cost of this system will be driven farther north than previously anticipated, and it was already expected to be above $1k. Releasing a console in the middle of an industry-wide RAM shortage is stupid. Even GPU makers are scaling back production because of it, and focusing their remaining stock and production towards selling to datacenters. Some memory manufacturers have dropped consumer products entirely and now only make chips for datacenters. Nvidia is scaling back its consumer GPUs, no longer offering the super series of some GPUs, for instance.

For MS to pull the trigger now means releasing at a very risky price point against a PS5 that is simply on fire, even outselling the Switch 2 in many cases. It's coming at a time where the Xbox brand is at its weakest ever, and consumer confidence in the brand is at absolute rock bottom. Nobody wants to drop $1500 on an Xbox when they can play the same games on their PS5 Pro for half the price already, or even cheaper if using a base PS5. Only a select few enthusiasts will bother to fork out that kind of money... by the time this product reaches a price point where it can have mass-market appeal, the PS6 will be dropping... but by that time, RAM prices will be dropping, so PS6 will now be able to, assuming it does delay until 2029, invest more into upgrading its architecture over the previously released spec, invest in more RAM than the new Xbox will have, a better CPU & GPU, etc.

As for nobody saying PS6 will launch in 2029, nobody said it would come sooner either, not officially, at least. As of now all we have to go by are rumors based on internal information that could easily change at a moment's notice. Even the design of the chip itself could change as it has not yet entered into production. They could easily opt to include a few more CUs, more RAM, more CPU cores, etc. between now and when it does officially enter production. So, MS could drop a new Xbox now, but it wouldn't be wise, at all, for them to do so if they plan on even holding a candle agains the juggernaut that will be PS6. PS5 will most likely mop the floor with it due to its price point alone.

And that's assuming MS even gives the green light to start manufacturing the console to begin with. We'll see in the coming months if production even happens. Microsoft's shareholders damn sure aren't going to be willing to subsidize anything at all after they just dumped $100b into buying game publishers, expecting to see a ROI, and not seeing it anywhere near as fast as they'd hoped, which is why we're now playing Xbox games on PS5.

As for MS sitting on RAM, they are sitting on some, but Xbox is sitting on none. Microsoft knows good and well they will make far more money putting that RAM into datacenters than they ever would putting it into a console that is already at a huge disadvantage before it even launches, and has little hope of generating a lot of sales.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 87d ago
Neonridr87d ago

It'll end up being a Windows based machine that utilizes an Xbox ecosystem as well to play their game library on. But you'll end up being able to buy games from places like Steam as well more than likely.

Would make the most sense honestly. Best of both worlds.

Agent7587d ago

Microsoft should just ditch Xbox and cash in on PC and PlayStation games, maybe even Switch 2. Apparently, they make a loss on hardware, so what's the point?

Reaper22_88d ago

How can this be? Xbox died already.

87d ago Replies(1)
mkis00787d ago (Edited 87d ago )

What Xbox was is dead. Long live Xbox. I mean Halo and fable are coming to PlayStation this year. Gears and forza are already there. I'm here for it. I will absolutely give MS publishing my money if they make good games.

87d ago Replies(1)
Elda87d ago

My XBOX Series X is my first & my last XB console.

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150°

NVIDIA DLSS 4 vs AMD FSR 4 Compared: Ray Reconstruction Makes FSR 4 Look Last-Gen

FSR 4 was a substantial improvement to AMD’s upscaling solution. It reduces ghosting, improves finer mesh retention, and particle effects. In most cases, it delivers similar visual quality to DLSS 4’s CNN model, but slightly worse than the newer transformer model.

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pcoptimizedsettings.com
dveio150d ago

Since FSR is open-source and nvidia's DLSS isn't, I'd personally always prefer FSR.

Frankly, I think all these differences are nice to know (and notice) about if you're playing at DF level. And I totally respect that very small need to max out performance.

But given the prices, I don't think any nvidia GPU advantage justifies paying 1000+ bucks. I don't see any game(s) exclusively (or not) available on PC that offer a fundamentally different and innovative gameplay experience.

Notellin150d ago

There's never a good reason to own any products from Nvidia. They are one of the most destructive and anti-consumer companies that's ever existed.

Anyone buying and using Nvidia is only contributing to the downfall and end of gaming as we know it now.

With the rise of Nvidia all we've seen is price gouging while their products that continue to become less power efficient and their performance gains are so miniscule you'd need a 100x microscope to notice the AI upscaling. Pathetic really.

Tapani149d ago

Why do you need to pay 1000 bucks for an Nvidia GPU? You can find one that is faster than the PS5 Pro at 400 bucks, RTX 5060 ti 16GB, and it has better upscaling, more VRAM, multiframe generation and RT.

Gamersunite880150d ago

DLSS will always be better. FSR sucks.

__y2jb150d ago

The examples given look essentially identical.

babadivad150d ago

Exactly. Headline says FSR looks like last gen. Implying it's years behind the competition. Article says it's slightly behind.

Examples shown, the difference are barely discernible.

derek150d ago

I dont know about anyone else, but I've never had 2 screens playing at the same time to know the difference in performance of a given game. It's like those TV screen comparisons, virtually nobody in the real world engages does this, lol. Performance seems comparable to me. Besides Nvidia is no longer interested in the gaming products, its full steam ahead with "AI".

Tapani149d ago (Edited 149d ago )

Yeah, but the gaving division is still 8.5% of their global revenue, and they just made 30% YoY topline growth per quarter. A 11.35 billion business is absolutely massive, and this will continue to increase. That means there's 11.35bn reasons why they won't stop the gaming business, nor lose their focus on it. It's also their pivot if things do not go as well in the AI race. By end of 2026, they have DOUBLED the gaming division business in 5 years.

FY 2025 $11.35 billion 8.6%
FY 2024 $10.45 billion 15.2% (approx)
FY 2023 $9.07 billion -7.5% (approx)
FY 2022 $9.82 billion (approx) 49.6% (approx)
FY 2021 $6.5 billion (approx) 61.1% (approx)

MrDead150d ago

I've been lucky enough to get a new 5090 build in March, glad I went with Nvidia. Cyberpunk looks amazing.

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100°

AMD's RX9070 XT crushes Nvidia's RTX 5080 in Call of Duty: Black Ops 7 benchmarks - Story Mode

The 9070XT matches or beats Nvidia's much more expensive 5080 in CoD: BO7 benchmarks. A rare win for AMD. The article also takes a closer look at 9600X vs 9800X3D performance.

Read Full Story >>
storymode.info
wesnytsfs204d ago

No ray tracing might be why.

Runechaz203d ago

Ray tracing is useless in a fps

thecodingart203d ago

Came looking for dumb comments - found them

Zenzuu203d ago

Not every game needs to have ray tracing.

Darkseeker203d ago

I'd even say no games need to have it. It's just a ressource hog.

Blad3runner00203d ago (Edited 203d ago )

Why does the article use misleading terms like "Crushes" and "The 9070 XT "HANDILY BEATS" the more expensive RTX 5080" ? It even admits it at the end of the article, yet keeps the terms lol

Looking at the graph, the difference is only 4-19fps, depending on the settings.

I would hardly call a 4-19fps difference, "crushes" or "handily beats" and no one is going to buy a 9070 over a 5080 for COD alone. How does the 9070 fair in other games compared to the 5080?

OpenGL203d ago

I think they exaggerate because people like when a product punches above its weight, especially from an underdog, but yeah it's not a huge difference. There are plenty of games where the 5080 is significantly faster.

wesnytsfs203d ago

That is basically what the 5090 does compared to the 4090. I dont consider it crushing either and decided to keep my 4090 over geting the 5090 with its small increase of FPS.

OpenGL202d ago

That's a no brainer, the 5090 is definitely the fastest card on the market but the 4090 is the second fastest, so it's still extremely powerful.