"Ah now this is where you are wrong, re-read what I said, I said, "path that MS is taking is going away from gamers". So I am talking about the path that MS is taking, not if gamers would like it or not"

But you ARE speaking for other gamers. The fact that you believe that you know what the "wrong path" is towards gamers implies that you have a deep seated belief that you know what gamers in general want. So yeah, you were speaking for other gamers.

Ahhh another SONY fanboy who knows everything about the next Xbox even though it doesn't exist yet.

N4G is usually a barrel of laughs, but I feel brain cells dying as I read GAMER's comments.

No Microsoft doesn't know what they're doing. If they were, they wouldn't focus on Kinect this much and abandon core gamers. It's what they're doing right now.

They won't be able to keep the market they took from Sony this gen. Sony is gonna take everything back and some more.

Yeah i agree they will be just fine. They might not come first this gen but they will sell enough to still be a competitor

@miyamoto

Microsoft exceeded expectations with Xbox 360. It may not be the success that the PS3 is but it is close. Having Microsoft in competition is great for gamers, Sony really came out punching with the PS4 because of the new Xbox. If it were only PS4 and Wii U out, who would push Sony to be bigger and better?

@iGAM3R-VIII

The Wii won the current generation and they didn't cater to "gamers". Gamers need to mentally move away from the notion that they are the center of the universe. There are a couple of billion smartphone owners and a couple of hundred million people with current generation consoles.

Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are looking for a profit. They do that by attracting the largest audience or making a product that makes a big enough profit per unit to make money. But your best chances are always with a bigger audience. That's why some games are releasing on the current gen and not next. Install base increases the chance of a successful game.

All of the complaints about one company or the other don't matter because all of the companies are successful. Sony less so this generation, but they were last and have made decisions that will make them so again. Get over having either machine cater to you or believing every rumor on the web.

The completely dumb argument that MS can't do casual games and hardcore is nonsense. They make 25 to 30 billion in profits each year and have 65,000 thousand employees. And thousands more working on their behalf at other companies they hire for various reasons. They can walk and chew gum. People mistake smart business decisions for a lack of focus. People should focus on the big picture.

@miyamoto

You must get your news from n4g comments. MS lost around 5 billion on the Xbox. They have made that back and more with this long 360 generation. Sony has lost around 6 billion on the PS3. They will make that back on the PS4 depending on the length of the generation. But the idea that MS didn't accomplish what they set out to do is a joke. They are making large profits in gaming, they are growing in gaming and they expanding their Xbox business whether Sony fanboys like it or not.

^^Refreshing to see a person that makes sense here. Bubbles.

@dcbronco

"You must get your news from n4g comments. MS lost around 5 billion on the Xbox. They have made that back and more with this long 360 generation. Sony has lost around 6 billion on the PS3"

Get your facts straight before you troll will ya. See here the latest numbers from Forbes. Xbox brand never generate any profit.

Here are some proof see link.

http://www.gamespot.com/for...

M$FT this time has no: 1 year head start on the competition...RRoD consoles to boost sales count.

@Shoryuken
Haha that piece of "evidence" is from a forum that some idiot doodled up on Excel...

The fact is, this current gen Xbox managed to steal half of the playstation fanbase, and or recruited more gamers into the world with the xbox360.
How can you not see that as a success?

The PS4 may very well regain some of its lost followers. But what ever xbox decide to do you can pretty sure say its a say bet they will keep their current install base and gain more just like the PS4 will. What ever their different "focuses" maybe.

You will never get the full picture on forums. Those who post here like myself are the more dedicated gamer so our views are slightly different than say the mainstream public.

Here you will have arguments about anything, no matter how small and insignificant that may be. In the real world people buy whatever product they want, plug in the game and play.

Here Call of Duty is the worst series, out there in the real world it drowns all other releases.

I want Microsoft to release lots of new ip's that interest me and a powerful console and some real innovation and not charge a subscription fee to access the online parts of the game I already purchased. In the real world a large portion of Xbox 360 owners (or any system for that matter) do much more on their systems than just play games.

http://www.gameinformer.com...

I just find it ironic how armchair analysts here who are all too quick to criticize seem to think they know what's best and how to run a business better than Microsoft. Believe me, if the new Xbox turns out to be a casual gaming platform with too much attention to media functions I will be the first one to vent my frustration. Until then I will be optimistic.

zlpw0ker wrote,
"only reason 360 has sold so much is a few reasons.
1 is that 360 has rrod has like 50% chance or so,I dont know,but when it breaks down it seems everyone is just buying a new 360,so its because of the rrod of the high sales.
2 is that its shooting console mostly,I dont play shooting games,I play car games,h&s,fighting games and some rpg's.so for me the ps3 is console to play,besides I have owned my ps3 for 3years now,with no issue at all."

1. If that were true then explain why software sales are not half of overall software sales for the PS3? Are you trying to convince everyone that not only did they replace the console because it was broken but also the software? What's next, half the games are prone to scratching? Either way you want to spin it 3rd party publishers don't see it that way and fully support both the PS3 and Xbox 360.

2. You play car games but fail to mention Forza? Both systems share mostly the same games. Yes Sony provides more exclusives but when you break it down over the year it's only a very small handful of games that differentiate themselves from one another. You people used to label it as a shooterbox, now it's a casual console with just Kinect games. I guess whatever flavor of the week that suits your argument.

"back to your point,ms dont know what their doing,it the rumors are true ofcourse and it will feature kinect 2.0,no one wants to have kinect or be forced to play with it/integrate with it. Secondally is if 720 requires internett connection all this alienate ALOT of players since both 360 and ps3 doesnt require this."

So true. They don't know what they are doing. That's why they have billions of dollars in the bank and the media is very interested in what the next Xbox will be. They have also managed to get all major publishers to support the Xbox 360 which was a far cry from the original Xbox. Maybe Microsoft Word can help your grammar.

What is clear on forums, especially this one is there is a lot of hatred towards the company. Part of it stems from them going after Sony and taking some of their previous userbase away from them. Some of it is their history with Windows and being a monopoly. Some of it is how they run their Xbox division. But mostly it's made up of misconceptions brought on by ignorance.

@Jhonnybadfinger aka denial at best.

Xbox division doesn't make money and truth does hurt.

Here are some more links.

http://www.gameplanet.co.nz...

Yeah it sold a lot, but one of the reason is SOLD better was do to piracy. If Sony system once hacked you can still go online then we be saying something different today. Nicely put MikeMyers, till this day I DO NOT see how the xbox was better. All I saw was MS ripping their customers, and customers falling for it.

Scary69,

Never said it was better than the PS3. In fact I get more use out of my PS3 and think overall it offers greater value. However even after all these years there are still a lot of misconceptions and ignorance towards it.

I want Microsoft to deliver at E3. For the most part their shows are rather weak but I want to see just what direction they want to take. So far the PS4 impresses me the most. Sony has really listened to developers and gamers. They seemed to have corrected all the mistakes the PS3 made. The online structure and Gaikai are still a major unknown at this point, as well as the price. Hopefully everything will be cleared up during E3.

What we need is competition. We need these companies to know we are not naive, that we can go elsewhere. I think it might be better if each company goes in a slightly different direction while keeping gaming core to the device. Sony got arrogant and complacent at the start of this generation, now they are hungry which is always good. Microsoft was hungry early on and now they seem to be arrogant and complacent. Nintendo just does their own thing and looks to be falling behind because they still do business like they did 20 years ago. You have to listen to your audience. You have to listen to game designers and most importantly you have to deliver on a timely fashion in this day and age. You can no longer rely on history and past practices.

By that logic, Sony should have done much better-- look at how many PS2s they sold, they must have known what they were doing with that crazy price tag. Except they didn't.

Each console cycle is a new beginning. Past performance does not predict future results.

(That said, I'll take the rumours with my day's serving of salt and say that the next Xbox might still be focused on gamers.)

Edit: Really, people? Disagrees? Do you really think Sony was super happy with their performance this cycle as compared to Nintendo and MS? They didn't fail by a long shot, but losing the market share they lost cannot have been a happy even for them.

@ miyamoto, riverstars86
Miy, how in the world can you say that? MS went from a joke Xbox vs. PS2, to equal footing with the reining "king of gaming" Sony. How is that in any way bad? They did exactly what they wanted too. The 360 kicked ass this gen.
River, I agree with what you said, except 1 thing, you said "It may not be the success that the PS3 is but it is close"
I really don't see the Playstation 3 as a success at all. From our POV, yes Sony kicks out a lot of high quality games, and does seem to use that strategy towards their business, and any gamers should approve of that, but for a business standpoint, I don't think the PS3 has made Sony a dime yet. They lost time, money, and market share with the PS3, not that much of a success if you ask me, or their shareholders.

"Each console cycle is a new beginning. Past performance does not predict future results."

You're right. Nintendo blew people away from the dismal Gamecube era to the Wii. Microsoft went from the Xbox to the Xbox 360 and took online gaming to a whole new level while taking some of the marketshare away from Sony. Sony went with an all-in approach with proprietary hardware once again plus bluray and now look to be offering a much easier platform to make games on.

It is very clear that multi-screen, social services and online connections are going to be common on all the systems. What isn't clear is Microsoft's approach going forward and how they plan on balancing all of that out. Windows 8 has received a lot of negative attention and the Surface tablet didn't set the world on fire. It is clear they want to tie all of these devices running Windows together and also experiment with multi-screen functionality like Nintendo and Sony are doing. What also not clear as of yet is how much they will push Kinect and how risky they will be with game software.

360 released in 2005 though. whats impressive about selling 75 million in 8 years? thats slow as hell!

@SHORYUKEN

That's not a Forbes article. It's some chart posted by someone on a forum. But realize that the Xbox brand is in a division with several other products and services. The majority of those services aren't actually money making ventures.

Things like Zune, Surface and Office for Mac advertising are charged to that division. Most of the things make zero and since most of the products are developmental a ton of the money goes back into R & D. This link describes the division. Entertainment and Devices.

http://www.microsoft.com/in...

This link shows the 9.5+ billion in revenue for the division.

http://www.microsoft.com/in...

MS is making a profit on each 360 sold? And the millions of Live subscribers payments. And the purchases on Live. And the millions of copies of games that are sold each year on the 360 that send a ten dollar royalty payment to MS.

The comparison of years 2011 and 2010 show that Xbox revenue increased 2.7 billion in 2011. A 48% increase. Look at the chart. Revenue grew by almost 3 billion in the division. Which means that if the division made 6 billion and Xbox increased 48% to bring it to 9 billion Xbox made around 5 billion in 2010 and around 7.5 in 2011.

If you look further into the report you'll see that they spent close to 1.5 billion on R& D in that division. Xbox makes plenty of money for Microsoft. They just spend a lot of it on products that don't help create any income yet. I'm sure Surface is in that division as well. Both the tablet and table. They also have made huge payments to Nokia from that divisions for phones which don't make money.

There is nothing involved with Xbox as far as products that loses money. The console, Kinect and Live all generate a profit. So there would be a huge annual profit if so much wasn't put back into the business. Or if it was a separate division. One and a half billion is not all spent on Xbox R & D. This is why MS will not be leaving gaming any time soon. They are making a lot of money.

Also note the Cash and cash equivalents and short-term investments on the link below. This is the cash MS has on the side.

http://www.microsoft.com/in...

@MysticStrummer

everyone bought a 360 because they couldn't afford a PS3.

Consumers in general might not have made their choice by E3. In fact, the vast majority will not have made a choice by the time the consoles releases.

Remember, the initial launch only sells a few million consoles. Over the entire generation, the console is to sell 20-30 times the launch numbers or even higher.

What we see at E3 and gaming sites are for the hardcore of the hardcore, meaning even people that play a lot of games don't necessarily follow news like we do.

Even then, the hardcore of the hardcore might not know everything by E3. Even what Sony revealed is just a tease.

They haven't shown the platform, the OS, the interface, the services, the price, the....

Let's face it, all Sony has told us is "we are about games, but we haven't told you about our other plans and oh, here is a few fancy specs for you to chew on"!

In case nobody noticed, last generation even though MS released first, it was the Wii that won!

In every console generation, it was never the most high specced machine that won.

@torchic:

"everyone bought a 360 because they couldn't afford a PS3"

but consumers can afford an Xbox 360 and Xbox Live GOLD? What about an ipad or iphone?

Point being, it's not that consumers cannot afford it. It is, consumers question the value of it and I'm not just picking on PS3 here. It applies to Xbox 360 as well being cheaper than an iPad/iPhone.

Sony were first to reveal their next gen plans. They revealed the name, rough release window, specs, new controller and even showed actual next gen games. All this before MS has even confirmed they are working on a new console officially. How is this not beating them to the punch?

@JeffGUNZ

Well said. You're right that it does become a lot more affordable after launch. I do disagree on a few things you said, though.

I know I speak for more than myself when it comes to this. The folks who don't find it financially plausible to have both consoles this gen is a much larger group than you think it is. You just don't see many of them here on NG4, is all. As for your statement on people needing to be either a fanboy or super broke to have only one console, isn't that generalization? I personally know quite a few gamers that just don't see why having both consoles is practical. Why spend the extra money on another console when you can spend that money buying more games?

Also, regarding the 99$ 360, didn't that one come with a catch 22 where you're roped into paying a 15$ a month for xbox live for two years? Kotaku wrote an article on it, I think.